Change has become a constant in today’s workplace, and organizations need resilient employees and leaders who can adapt, navigate uncertainty and continue moving forward.
In this episode of The Business of Learning, recorded at the 2026 Training Industry Conference & Expo (TICE), Cassi Chandler, motivational leadership expert and the FBI’s first African American female special agent assistant director, shares actionable tips for building organizational resilience and how L&D leaders can proactively prepare employees to navigate constant change.
Tune in now for insights on:
- How L&D leaders can proactively prepare employees for constant change rather than reacting to disruption
- The skills and capabilities organizations should prioritize to help employees adapt and thrive
- How L&D can measure whether its efforts to build organizational resilience are working
More Resources:
- [Podcast] Episode 98: The Psychology of Motivation
The transcript for this episode follows:
Sarah Gallo: Hi, and welcome back to “The Business of Learning.” I’m Sarah Gallo, a senior editor here at Training Industry.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: And I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editor-in-chief. Change has become a constant in today’s workplace, and there’s no sign of that slowing down anytime soon. To learn how L&D can help build resilient organizations that are equipped to navigate change, we’re joined by Cassie Chandler, a motivational leadership expert and the FBI’s first African American female special agent assistant director. Cassie, thanks for speaking with us today.
Cassie Chandler: That sounded like it was a real long title to get through. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Sarah Gallo: Yeah, we’re looking forward to this. To kick things off, when thinking about those really high-performing organizations, how does resilience show up in the day-to-day? And how should learning leaders sort of think about resilience as well?
Cassie Chandler: You know, that’s a good question because learning leaders are the people who are the backbone for getting all the other leaders to that level of resilience, right? You’re that foundation for the encouraging, the driving, the training, the giving. So it has to start actually with the learning leaders, seeing and understanding those needs, and then being willing to step in and give of themselves to get there. You’re gonna hear, a lot of times when I talk, I talk about giving of yourself. One of the things I think when we’re looking at resilience is we look at it as this getting through bad things and difficulties. But for me, resilience is more about I am, I can, I make it for me. So when you’re looking at things like artificial intelligence is taking over your job and things along that line, it’s not just that there’s chaos, there are problems, there are difficulties that I need to figure out how to be resilient and get through it. It’s more about how do I take the chaos and the difficulties, and I make it work for me. Does that make sense? Because you don’t have to sit and wait for the destruction to take you down to try and build resilience and now overcome it. You start looking first and seeing what’s coming, and then you change it, and you put it in the right place to make it work for you. Yeah. I’ve always been that —
Sarah Gallo: Put yourself in the driver’s seat.
Cassie Chandler: Yep. You put yourself — oh, I like that. Put yourself in the driver’s seat.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Be that forward-looking, future focused. Yeah. What are some barriers that you see organizations face with building these resilient teams?
Cassie Chandler: I’m gonna say first, based upon what we just said the first thing is they’re not forward-thinking. And they’re not looking at, what is this gonna mean in the future? They’re allowing things to happen, and then try and come back and change things.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Being reactive.
Cassie Chandler: Yes. So, I would put into place when I was first starting, and I’m out as a leader, artificial intelligence wasn’t something I had to face with. Believe it or not, it was computers. So we had to figure out, how do we make this device work for us? But you had to be forward-thinking in order to get yourself there. Even with leading in areas like fraud and abuse that I was in, I was always looking in the media to see what’s coming, not what is. So I wanna kinda change this. You know, I want to move us to thinking more resilience. It’s about knowing the what’s coming, not the what is. Can we get there? You can see so many beautiful things are happening right now. How can you use artificial intelligence to make your world a better place, to make your job better, instead of waiting for it to take over? I’m in control of this, right? And it’s seeing, can I use this tool to… All right. People are gonna use it to write. Here’s the thing to remember. Artificial intelligence is gonna write the same way. This person’s thing is gonna sound like that person. You’re smart, you’re innovative, you’re creative. How are you gonna make it — use it — to make your stuff even better, and then put yourself back in it to make it sound like something that makes a whole lot more sense than the people who are just all out there using it? It’s taking all the things we see, the chaos, the, what we can’t get from another country, the new regulations that are coming, and the firing all around in various positions. We can’t get jobs done. The scale they’re saying we’re lacking. You can see it’s coming. What skills do you need now to be ready when that hits two years from now? Start working on it. Right?
Sarah Gallo: Definitely.
Cassie Chandler: If you’re not a — let me give you a good example. If you’re not a writer, if you’re not a creative, then start taking some creative writing classes, because when those people are using just general AI to do their work, it comes out like a choppy general AI language. Now, you’re the writer. You’ve just taken your creative writing classes. You can now change what has been written to something more personable, something that comes from the heart, something with a bit more feeling. Someone’s gonna want your work and how you’re working with this team than they’re gonna want the other person’s work. Just getting ahead of it.
Sarah Gallo: I feel like that has to help employees too, that maybe have a lot of stress or anxiety about all of this change, just feeling like they have some grasp on it.
Cassie Chandler: We’re talking right now about AI, but it’s a lot of stuff. Yeah. It’s learning, okay, if I’m gonna be innovative and look for what the future’s gonna hold that I need to start getting myself prepared for now, that includes who do I need to start networking with? Because eventually they’re going to be the. Or who do I need to start building some foundation with because I’m gonna need their assistance when I get to that next level. And that means you gotta start planning for what’s your next level and what do you see you want to do and how you can use the things you — it’s all, you know what? I guess I can throw it all up to a single word. It’s being dreamers. Because dreamers move things and they make things happen. I have been the biggest dreamer all my careers. I could see things and possibilities, and I start dreaming about how I could do this and what would I need to do next, and then getting ready and preparing for it. That all resolves out to resilience.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Do you have any advice for how to prepare for uncertainty? Like, if there is the question mark of, “I don’t know what to prepare for” — do you have any advice there, like what we should be thinking about?
Cassie Chandler: I think that one of the things that we should always focus on is not wait for it to become news, but start digging and reviewing and investigating and researching what’s happening worldwide. I’d do that. Before there was even a — if you heard me talking 20 years ago about the possibility of artificial intelligence, everything I was telling people could come to be is what’s happening now. So I was never the person who waited till the news told me something’s happening. You gotta be more research-oriented, more direct at seeing what a business, what’s the vision? What should I be doing to help with that vision? What’s my role in it? And oh my gosh, I get excited, guys, because we can sit back and wait for people to dictate to us what we need to do and how we need to be, or we can start looking for what is and what are the possibilities. And then you can start building and preparing yourself for that, right? If you wait until it’s happened, you know your company has a vision. The question is, how do you see yourself in that vision? If your leader’s not telling you, you need to figure out how you fit into that vision and what you need to do. If you see the vision and you think, “I can bring more to it,” then what are the things you should start researching now to teach and train yourself up to that will prepare you for where you need to be when that does occur? You know, I’m sounding very futuristic, blah, blah, blah, this, that. But there’s so much into the stop waiting for things to happen and then you’re starting to operate but more be the futuristic type of person. You know, you don’t wait for “Star Trek.” You know so much about what “Star Trek” to do, you’re the writer of the next scene.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: We have more control than we give ourselves credit for. I love what you’re saying there.
Cassie Chandler: Yeah, and you have the control. It’s just that you’ve been taught to wait. And then do this, check the box. I’ve done this, check the box. I’m never gonna give a person a check the box things to do. I’m gonna say, “What’s in your heart and your spirit and your soul that’s telling you what you want to do?” Now build it. You know they used to have that where — what was it? It was some TV show or something. They’d say, “If you build it, they will come.” You’re the builder. You make it come.
Sarah Gallo: Yeah. I love that. I’d love to get your thoughts, maybe for L&D leaders who are working at organizations that just currently are more reactive right now. You know, they’re not taking that proactive approach. Do you have any advice for sort of shifting that?
Cassie Chandler: And I know, I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to force everybody to run out and take control of everything, but L&D leaders, like I said, they’re the foundation. So sometimes you need to start figuring out how to steer a business or a company, and you’re steering them through the leadership, right? So you help them see, if you’re out in the forefront now about what’s coming up. You know what the needs are of the business, you’ve worked with a number of these leaders before, so you’re looking at where you are now, they’re not gonna ever get to where you know they’re gonna need to be. Then you gotta start working on those leaders in a way today that they don’t even know that it’s a-coming. And then you’re able to move them towards where they’re gonna need to be, they’re more, to be more resilient when things do come. And they’re gonna love you for it because they say, “I’m so glad you sent me to the blah, blah, blah class,” or, “You talked about, you know, us understanding this.” Because then they’re gonna start see that you’re the forward-thinking dreamer and they can’t live without you. I’m serious. And you wanna be in that position. One of the things I think I went through in most of my careers that allowed me to succeed is because I was forward-thinking, I always put together things before it happened: packages, ideas, concepts thoughts, perspectives. Write it out in a nice, neat kinda way, and then sitting with the leader boss to talk about, “Here’s a, just a thought. What if…” But I got something to turn over to them. When the director of the FBI and I first met, it wasn’t when he was the director, it was when he was the United States attorney for the Southern District of California. And I was the assistant special agent in charge in the San Francisco office who had to go and meet him when he was first appointed. I walk in like every other… I was one of four assistant special agents, right? And then you have a, the bigger special agent. I walk in after each of them, my previous team members had walked in to say, Here I am. “My name is Cassie Chandler and I run the blah, blah, blah program, and blah, blah, blah.” I walked in and I told him that just like everybody else did, but I ended with saying, “My team has 27 cases which have not been confirmed to move forward or declined by your assistant U.S. attorneys. I would like to see some kind of final decision made. That’s the thing I would like.” Well, nobody had told him anything like that. Everybody was just saying, “Look at me, I’m so-and-so. I’m gonna…” No, no, no. I need something done. And I never forget, he looked at me like, “Okay.” And he said, “Bring me those cases and I promise you, I will personally review them.” I had my little, you know, notebook thing, we used to carry those briefcases. I had my little briefcase. I took out the whole package. I had already typed it all up, and I said, “Here it is, sir. Thank you so much for taking a look at it. Let me know whenever you’d like to talk,” and I walked out of the office. He never forgot that. So years later, he becomes the director of the FBI. He sees me. “That’s that girl Cassie who,” you know, I took care of business, and he knew me as she takes care of business. What’s the reputation you’re building? How are you letting those leaders know? Leaders, you’re in L&D, but you’re the person that’s helping send the, “This is where we need to do.” You’re out in the forefront. You see the problems and the issues that are coming up, and you’re preparing for it because then you can prepare them for it. Does that make sense?
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Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: When we’re thinking about skills, what skills should organizations be investing in now to build resilient employees that are ready for anything, kind of that forward-looking?
Cassie Chandler: I think one of the big skills that we are thinking we don’t need is the ability to write. And I would put people into creative writing because if we are not learning simple skills like a simple skill of creating creative writing helps us take the things we’re working with in AI or whatever and recreate it in such a way that we’re selling the product or we’re selling the idea or the concept in a human way. And that helps us see and understand humanity. It’s having skills, I think one of the things I talked about during the presentation with TICE, it’s making sure we have that ICU perspective, a skill. I know I shouldn’t say it’s a skill, but one of the skills we’re starting to lose is the skill of humanity. So if we’re teaching people creative writing, teaching people how to think, giving them critical thinking skills. Not just on business stuff, but critical thinking life type critical thinking skills, we’re going to move them to understanding and being more capable of embracing humanity in all of the work that we do.
Sarah Gallo: That’s the strategic advantage right now.
Cassie Chandler: And I’m telling you, it is going to be even more of a strategic advantage as we continue to rely more and more and more on computers and systems and artificial intelligence as opposed to relying on human nature. You’re sitting there looking at me like, “Huh?”
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: It just got me thinking, you were talking about creative writing. And it got me thinking about journaling and how that’s such an important exercise I think we all should be doing more of to be able to reflect and grow and learn from our experiences. And so the fact that you noted creative writing just really got me thinking about that.
Cassie Chandler: Nobody thinks of that anymore. But if you look back right now, someone has said I need to write a book, and so I started looking back at what I’ve done. I have journaled so much. I’ve got a box of stuff like this I’m kind of trying to go through, and I like to journal handwriting it out, so it’s not I’ve got to now read it into a system or type it into a system, all the things I had to try and see what I can pull together. But I went back and started seeing some of the thoughts and perspectives I had written, and I’m thinking, “Wow — this is, I had forgotten all about it. But it would be so important if I was still working in one of the roles I was in at the time when I was writing it. And it’s still also very important in a future role. But I’d forgotten about it, but it was because I was doing that journaling at that time and writing things down, it made all the difference in the world. And I could use so much of that if I was in business today.
Sarah Gallo: That’s great. Is there any advice you have for managers, leaders looking to support employees who are maybe struggling with change, whatever that looks like in their organization?
Cassie Chandler: One of the things I would strongly suggest is not to assume and not to expect people to be like you and recognize that sometimes it’s okay. So you may not have someone who is a high-level performer, but you do have high-level performers. You give to the person who has a need what they need to succeed. A high-level- performer may not need half the things someone else does, but it doesn’t mean that other person can’t provide you with such brilliance and capability and strength. It’s just that no one has ever seen them in terms of what they need. So give them that. It’s looking at people and understanding what they need. They may look grumbly and unhappy with things, but you don’t know what simple thing they feel they need. Have you sat down and had that personal one-on-one, not just, “We’re doing your file review,” or, “We’re doing your, you know, performance review for the whatever,” but the simple conversation, “How are we doing?” I used to sit with some individuals in my group with leading and say, “How am I doing? Talk to me.” Help me, “help me see me.” And inevitably when you do that, they’re not just helping you see you, they’re also telling you what they need. And that helps us start moving forward.
Sarah Gallo: Yeah. That’s great. Love that.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Those one-on-one conversations are so powerful and they need to happen, and surprisingly they don’t happen as frequently across organizations as they should be.
Cassie Chandler: And especially when the one-on-one conversations that we’re having, it’s because we’ve designed a program that says, you know, every year on such and such a day you sit and do your performance review and we talk about all, you know, the little things that are up or down, you know, you’re checking the box and did you do this and did you do that, and you never really get to know a human being. By things along that line. Sometimes it’s just sitting down and say, “How are you doing? Talk to me.” And looking them in the eyes with honesty, compassion, empathy, and letting people know, “You’re important to me and you’re important to this business.” Then you can move things along. And I’ll tell you, if you, can teach that, I don’t know if it’s a skill, but we need to teach people to see people and understand how to move into that human world of “how are you doing?” But we’ve got a whole lot of check the boxes in there, and it’s just not the direction we should be taking at a time when all of what we’re working with are a bunch of boxes. Does that make sense?
Sarah Gallo: Definitely. Yeah. That’s huge.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Well, before we wrap up today, do you have any advice for L&D leaders on how they can measure the impact of the resilience training that they’re doing at their organizations? Like, how can they tell if their efforts are working? Are there any specific indicators they should be looking at?
Cassie Chandler: I think they should be looking at the people. Are people happy coming into this job? Do they know what the vision of the office is? Is there camaraderie? Is there collaboration? Are they smiling? Or are they coming in with grumbled, unhappy faces? That’s a clear indication of whether or not you’re moving forward. It’s never just about are the numbers up or down. It’s what I see in my people. When I walk into a room, right? And leaders need to see that. And when you’re providing that kind of counsel to leaders, help them see that. I’m not seeing your people enthusiastic about being here. What can we do differently? And I think a lot of times, you, when you’re in learning and development, it’s not just teaching them this new skill thing or something that’s come up or, you know, are you a introvert or extrovert leader and blah, blah, blah, and what you have to do and so then touch the box about — no, it’s about sitting there and talking to them too and helping them feel their way through the needs of their people. We’ve gotta get to that point. Maybe I’m the humanity singing person, you know? We’ve gotta get back to it’s all impacting us individually. I think one of the things I said at this last group meeting was, whatever we do, we have to start back. We have to start first by, “I see you.” And helping people know that I see you, I understand you, I understand what you need. But if you’re not letting someone know I see you, you’re just telling them what to do, it will never succeed. It will never be sustainable. Could succeed a little bit, but it’s never gonna be sustainable, and your folks are never gonna demonstrate people who are happy coming into this office and being a part of this team.
Sarah Gallo: That’s huge. Well, that was great. Gotta bring humanity back. That’s for sure. I like that. Your tagline. That was great, Cassie.
Cassie Chandler: Thank you so much.
Sarah Gallo: Thank you for sitting down with us. How can our listeners get in touch?
Cassie Chandler: Well, you can reach out to me through LinkedIn always, and I generally respond. And when I do that through LinkedIn, I usually provide the right email address and the right phone number for things along that line. But I’m at this point in my life where, I’m not doing as much business as I used to because I’m able, I’m retired, and I can now say, “No, I’m not gonna do that.” You know, when you get to a point in my business, it was I had started counseling leaders because a board has said, “You did something bad with some employee, so now you gotta go get some counsel.” And then I get them, and then they could check the box that says, “I got counseled by Cassie Chandler of Vigeo Alliance.” And I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no.” “I need to get to know you, and if I don’t see I’m changing or influencing or impacting, then this is not for me.” So I moved a little bit away from that kind of thing. I don’t want to be that person, but I am now in this point where I’m enjoying being a resource for people who want to embrace their humanity, who want to be better leaders, who want to grow in their business. So I’m actually becoming a super mentor. So through the LinkedIn, it’s, you know, you want talk? Let’s get together and let’s talk about it. And I’m walking people through, and it’s not a business. It’s not charging someone. It’s just doing it, and I’m happy with that, and it puts me in a good place in my soul, and my spirit.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Well, thank you again, Cassie.
[Outro]
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